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February
2010 Interview with L.A. Marzulli:
L.A.: How did you get
into researching the UFO phenomena?
G.M.: Wanting to know more about UFOs and aliens was always a secret
hobby-horse of mine for as long as I can remember being alive. Being 41
years old now, I was a teen in the 1980's, and in my twenties for most of
the 1990's. Obviously, this was all well before UFOs were as (nearly) a
mainstream topic of conversation as they are today, and before the Internet
really became household, so reading about UFOs and finding good resources
was a lot harder, and took more work. But I grew up hearing a story or two
about a UFO sighting from my grandfather, and my older brother was also a
believer in them, as well as an avid sci-fi reader, so there was always a
book about aliens laying around, even if just science fiction. I watched "Battlestar
Galactica," "Buck Rogers," Ray Bradbury's "Martian Chronicles," and anything
that came on TV in the 1970's about space or aliens.
I just didn't realize until years later that this was a tad unusual
compared to most people! Heck, I even remember faithfully watching the TV
program "Project U.F.O." (based on the Air Force's Project Blue Book
investigations) on NBC when I was in grade school, and I had a subscription
to OMNI Magazine when I was in high school, just to give you examples of how
unusual I was, and how far back and entrenched an interest this was for me.
However, it was all more of a secret - or at least private - interest of
mine for most of my life - especially after I began to remember my own
experiences and didn't want people thinking I was crazy. But after becoming
born-again as a Christian, I finally told my story online and became public
with my views after the Heaven's Gate suicide in 1997, and moved to Roswell
in 1999 to become even more public, with the hope of ministering the gospel
and the truths I'd found out about aliens to larger numbers of people who
were being deceived and/or tormented like I had been.
L.A.: Were you abducted
in your childhood?
G.M.: Yes and no, really. That would be one term for it, but I think the
term itself is wrong in that I've come to realize that most likely I didn't
actually "go" anywhere, nor do I believe that so-called "abductees" like
myself really do go anywhere. I have always used the term "visited" rather
than "abducted" to refer to my experiences. Ten years ago, I used terms like
"astral realm" or "dream-scapes" to try to better relate the actual nature
of my experiences; now I find it's more accurate to simply classify them as
"visions" or visionary experiences, just as we see in The Bible.
I feel that the "alien abduction" experience is comparable to John's
Revelation, Peter's clean/unclean foods experience, and most of the book of
Ezekiel, to name just a few. These events are real, and they really happen,
but the reality that is experienced is not the same as the normal space and
time we usually experience. Biblically, angels have the power to initiate
these states with humans, and they can alter our bodies and the physical
landscape around us as well, causing one person to see and experience things
that another person nearby may or may not. And you can't say that my
experiences (or any abductee's) didn't happen or weren't real, without
arguing that much of what is recorded in The Bible "didn't really happen"
either.
So with all that said, I did have many occurrences of what much of the
secular world calls "alien abduction" experiences, but I think it's more
correct to say that I was "visited" many times and given "visionary"
experiences.
L.A.: Did you have
encounters with so-called extraterrestrial beings?
G.M.: Yes, several, with the clarification that I don't believe they were
really aliens - although for much of my life I did. (More on this below)
L.A.: What happened to
you during this time?
G.M.: I had several experiences during my childhood of interacting and
often being tormented by comparatively small beings with large heads and
eyes. Everything that I could remember is detailed in my 1997 book "Come
Sail Away" (which is free to read online) and takes up several pages. In
short though, there's an early instance of being chased though my house and
being pinned down by what I thought were cats with huge eyes wanting to eat
me; there's a daylight instance of a long teaching session in my front yard
involving a tall mantis-like being; and at least two half-remembered
accounts of sexual violation involving the greys. Apparently these were so
traumatic at the time that I (thank God) still don't have exact recall of
the events, but I had some intense, traumatic dreams in the 1990's reliving
the experience(s) in the contexts of traveling on a train at supersonic
speed, and being examined - then sexually assaulted - by a nurse, who was a
grey beneath her mask.
I also remember, what I thought was a dream, of me standing in my front
yard with several neighborhood kids and several greys while wearing a white
robe, and being bathed in light from a UFO overhead. There was one other
dream/vision that involved the same neighborhood kids and I running through
the woods and entering a large futuristic city that was populated equally
with greys and humans, and in that dream or vision, we were all sat down to
watch a television monitor for several hours. I remembered and related this
experience to a friend before Whitley Strieber ever published "The Secret
School," but the similarities are eerily striking.
So, with all that bouncing around my subconscious mind since childhood,
it's easy to see why I would have such a fascination with UFOs and aliens my
entire life, and want to find out the truth. In grade school, I was quite
obsessed with learning all I could about stars, planets, the solar system,
etc, and often imagined being an astronaut and being the first person to
make contact with aliens on Mars, or another planet.
L.A.: When did you
begin to realize that there was deception going on?
G.M.: Way, way, too late in the game, I'm afraid. A large problem for
myself and probably millions of other experiencers, is that you're afraid to
talk about it. In fact, you learn from experience that you can't talk about
it, because friends quickly depart from you if you do. I had it happen twice
- and eventually learned to suppress it and keep it to myself. It's a
terrible burden.
However, Jesus saved me in my twenties, and placed me in a rare, small
church that openly spoke of spiritual warfare and practiced deliverance
ministry to those undergoing demonic oppression. An understanding of the
reality of fallen angels and demons was ingrained in my Christian education
almost from day one. It was only as a new Christian that I was able to see
the obvious connection between my experiences and demonic oppression - the
common threads being torment and indoctrination of false gospels. The fruit
of my years of believing in aliens took me into varied New Age philosophies
and practices, and I simply had to own up to realizing that my experiences
were not visits from either enlightened space brothers or even evil space
aliens. Understanding what The Bible teaches about fallen entities bringing
false gospels and tormenting people, made me realize that fallen angels
and/or demons were entirely responsible for my experiences.
But in Christ I found deliverance from the experiences continuing, and
eventually freedom from my perceived shame, stigma, and isolation. It would
be awhile still before I could talk or write about my experiences, but after
the Heaven's Gate suicide I felt an immense burden and calling to share
everything, expose the "aliens" for what they really were, and prevent other
people from being deceived and eternally lost.
L.A.: What are your
thoughts about the burgeoning UFO phenomena?
G.M.: I'd have to say that I'm in complete agreement with you, and the
excellent lecture you delivered for us in Roswell this year at The First
Christian Symposium on Aliens. The UFO Phenomena is indeed "Real,
Burgeoning, and NOT GOING AWAY!" You did a good job, showing how the numbers
of reported sightings has increased probably a thousand-fold in the last 60+
years.
People all over the world are today reporting their UFO sightings instead
of keeping quiet, and the Internet is causing the reports and videos to go
global. The topic is slowly becoming more mainstream (i.e., covered by
occasional ABC specials, discussed frequently by Larry King, and of course
all those History Channel programs) and it's much more acceptable for a
person to say they do believe that UFOs represent alien craft today than
ever before (although I don't personally believe that). In fact, I think the
majority of people are to the point of wanting real answers now, and that's
different from when people used to laugh at the topic. Many still do laugh,
but even those people know that at minimum, reports of UFOs are so prolific
now and backed up by often very credible witnesses, that there is something
to it.
In fact, I'd say the topic is at a "tipping point" of sorts, where pretty
soon the majority of people in the world are going to be "believers" in UFOs
and aliens whether our government ever speaks of the topic in an open,
official manner, or not.
L.A.: Do you think
there will be full disclosure soon?
G.M.: That's a tough one for me to call actually. I'd only agree to
saying "soon" in the same way that I'd say Jesus Christ is returning "soon"
- and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I believe the two are
loosely connected.
First, you have to answer the question "full disclosure of what?" We know
of the efforts of Steven Bassett, Stephen Greer, etc, to get the U.S.
government to disclose "the truth of an extra-terrestrial presence" of
course. But if what you and I and many other Christians believe is correct,
there really is no authentic "extra-terrestrial presence" to disclose, but
rather, the strong delusion spoken of in 2nd Thessalonians 2:11.
So I think it's very unlikely that any government official would come out
and admit that they are either deceived BY or in collusion WITH fallen
angels! But if our own government (or world governments) actually do make an
official announcement about aliens being real and that UFOs are their craft,
then those will be the only two options - again, if people like you and I
are correct. Part of me wants to be optimistic that at some point someone in
government will officially admit that while the U.S. has been covertly
studying the UFO phenomena for decades, they've come to the conclusion that
it's really fallen angels - but that's a very unlikely stretch as they'd
basically be endorsing The Bible and Christianity at the same time. (Nick
Redfern has a book coming out on this very topic btw – a governmental study
that DID arrive at that very conclusion, but suppressed the info to avoid
impacting society in this manner. I haven’t read it yet so can’t strongly
endorse it – yet – but he did interview myself, Dr. Heiser and some other
Christians in this field to get material.) But anyways, it's been nearly a
century since agreement with The Bible was at the core of our government,
and the spirit of the age - combined with prophecies about what's to come -
make me think we'll never get back to that as a nation.
So my reasoning is that if and when "full disclosure" does happen (and by
that I mean the U.S. government officially declares aliens are here), it
will happen only in context of - or as a forerunner to - an end-times
delusion bringing together the entire world under antichrist. And as I
answered during the Christian Symposium this summer, that will be a time
when Christians need to pay special attention NOT to panic, but to pray for
our authorities, and continue to work with their hands, be productive, and
to teach sound doctrine to the church and to the lost, knowing that Jesus'
return is now very near.
L.A.: Are these
entities benevolent or malevolent?
G.M.: Quite simply, I believe their malevolence is apparent to anyone who
studies the topic thoroughly and without a "stars in their eyes
want-to-believe" mindset. Even to secular researchers like Dr Karla Turner
PhD and David Jacobs PhD the forced sexual violations, repeated
traumatization and "against our will" nature of the attacks, speak for
themselves. I'm glad that many of the secular researchers don't buy the
"doing it for our own good" lines of crap that theses aliens spew.
But especially from a Christian research perspective, it becomes
painfully obvious that - torment aside - the entities are intent on
promoting false religious doctrines and propping themselves up as our
"saviors" in and from the End Times disasters described in Revelation and
Matthew 24. I'd refer people to both your and my lecture from the Christian
Symposium on Aliens to get a full picture on that line of thought, and I
think your bloggings and what you said here in Roswell about the movie
"Knowing" are spot on.
They are extremely malevolent in fact: attempting to torture us while
we're alive, and misleading many to trust in them for salvation when they
are in fact quite willfully and knowingly leading people to perdition.
L.A.: Are these
entities extraterrestrial or inter dimensional and why?
G.M.: Given those choices alone, I'd say inter-dimensional is the better
phrase to use, qualifying that by saying I believe they are angels (fallen
angels, that is, i.e., the false gods and wicked heavenly hosts spoken of in
the Old Testament; the powers, principalities, rulers, archons, spoken of in
Ephesians 6:12).
From a purely secular research perspective, I think Jacques Vallee and J.
Allen Hynek (photo att'd) got it right decades ago when they arrived at the
phrase "inter-dimensional hypothesis" to counter the original
"extra-terrestrial hypothesis" they started with. As non-religious men of
science who had massive budgets from the U.S. Air Force to examine UFOs and
alien reports more thoroughly and exhaustively than anybody has been able to
before or since, these men discussed UFOs before the United Nations, and
concluded that UFOs were not physical objects traveling through space. They
concluded that they were non-material manifestations that can become
materialized when it suits them, and that they are playing "a bizarre game
of deception" with humans for the purpose of control. In short, through
science and nearly unlimited resources to play with, they found sufficient
evidence to overturn the ET premise they started out believing and were
trying to prove! In fact, Arthur C. Clark - the author of "2001 : A Space
Odyssey" even said in 1975 "One theory which can no longer be taken very
seriously is that UFOs are interstellar spaceships."
It's a crying shame that the "stars in their eyes want-to-believe"
mentality that I spoke of earlier has people in "ufology" today forgetting
or just plain ignoring what the greatest pioneers of truly scientific
ufology concluded and published decades ago. It's a true case of willful
ignorance.
From the perspective of a Bible-believing Christian researcher it's even
more apparent that the entities are inter-dimensional, aka spiritual, or
angelic entities. As you know Lynn, you and I will both be speaking at the
Last Days Conference in Nashville this April, and my lecture will be
dedicated to the evidence for the view that aliens are really spiritual
entities playing a role in the End-Times strong delusion. Interestingly, I
first wrote this lecture as the result of an invitation from a secular,
paranormal conference organizer, and I was in the position of proving this
premise to that audience! But I build this thesis around three key points:
1) That the documented messages of "aliens" from all sources promote a
false gospel, in accordance with exactly what the Bible warns us that lying
spirits will do in Galatians 1:8 and 1 Timothy 4:1
2) That these entities flee at the name of Jesus Christ (quoting Joe
Jordan's work and testimonies of people who have stopped the alien abduction
experience by calling out to Jesus Christ), and
3) That the powers and abilities of "aliens" are exactly the same as
those attributed to angels in The Bible (quoting the research of my wife
Nicole's paper presented at the Symposium this past summer).
L.A.: Will people be
deceived when UFOs appear en masse?
G.M.: Well there's an obvious assumption built into that question - that
UFOs will appear en masse. And it's an assumption, based on years of
research, that I happen to agree with, that at some point people will be
seeing stationary UFOs in broad daylight and on broadcast television, like
in Independence Day, and the newer TV version of the show "V." In fact I'd
argue that certain spiritual forces behind the Hollywood agenda are actually
shoving this image down our throats in order to desensitize the population
for just this eventuality.
And yes, if it were to happen like that I certainly believe that most
people would be deceived into taking this "appearing" or whatever at face
value - they will be deceived into thinking that what they see is a genuine
interstellar craft, or crafts, and set up a perceived need for a one-world
government. What I'm less sure about is by what process this deception could
conceivably be hoisted upon us though. Some have posited a hologram, or a
convoy of man-made ships using suppressed technology (such as Tesla anti-grav
or Nazi UFOs)... It's also possible that Vallee and Hynek's conclusions
about the "ufonauts" becoming material when they choose could be closer to
the truth, just on a much larger scale.
If and when this happens, it will be a massive deception, and could simply
be a shared visionary experience conjured entirely by fallen angels. Two
things to note in thinking about this possible scenario though ... 1) I
doubt there will be lasting physical proof that can be independently
examined by whomever wishes to, and 2) 2 Thessalonians 2:11 tells us in
advance to expect a strong delusion to entice those who refuse to accept the
gospel. Jesus Christ also stated that even the elect would be deceived if it
were possible. It will indeed be very convincing, and a complete deception.
L.A.: Why is the church
so reticent to discuss the subject?
G.M.: My dear brother, you have truly opened a can of worms by asking me
this one! It's a topic I've thought long and hard about.... Several possible
reasons have come to mind or presented themselves to me over the last few
years in fact - and some of them you and your readers may not like hearing
from me, ha ha! In short I'll say up front that we need to stop bemoaning
this fact, and simply function within the Body in the way that God has
called us to, and respect the other parts of the Body that function in their
called capacities.
First, it's just that to the casual reader (say, a pastor or leader who
is not called to this field in the way that you and I are...) that there's
very little in the Bible one can point to to easily argue for or
against extra-terrestrial life. I mean that it's hard to point to a simple,
clear verse that settles this issue definitively that a pastor could really
hang his hat on and feel that he could teach on the subject with much
authority. Much of what Christian teachers in this field have comes from
deduction and extrapolation from what IS clearly stated, but it has to be
reasoned out and argued well - after much disciplined study - rather than
simply saying "The Bible says XYZ about aliens and life on other
planets."
As you well know, much of what we believe about this topic came from
sources outside of the Bible - like from reading modern abductee's accounts
or other UFO literature - and then comparing these sources to the Bible. But
not many Christians or pastors are called or inclined to do that much
extra-biblical research to arrive at any given conclusion, much less prepare
for a sermon for that matter.
Recently, what I'll call "The Galileo Factor" came to my mind in regards
to this exact question. Given the Catholic church's initial reactions to the
idea that the earth is not flat and orbits the sun, and what's happened in
the 500 years since, I'm going to argue that the "collective memory" of
Christianity now has a subtle, yet paralyzing, fear of taking a stance on
something and then being "proven" scientifically wrong in the public eye
(even if they're actually right). The lie of "evolution" and the 20th
century (perceived) schism between faith and science also plays into this.
I'm thinking that no major denominational headquarters has an inclination
(read that "has the guts") to make a blanket statement that human life is
unique in the universe or that aliens are really fallen angels in disguise,
when the spirit of the age, Hollywood, and so many secular sources (and even
some Christian ones) argue otherwise. Whether it's Billy Graham or the
Southern Baptist Convention, I think Christians are afraid of making a
declarative statement on an issue that President Obama could quite
conceivably come on TV tomorrow and declare otherwise - or that UFOs
arriving en masse (as a deception) would "prove wrong" whoever makes such a
statement.
Frankly Lynn, all of us in this field know that we are sometimes
perceived as backwoods hillbillies - even by the church! - for saying aliens
are demonic. Many Christians, and perhaps even some of our readers, still
have all those, "Well maybe God this or that" or "Well, God could have...
Who can say...?" ideas going around in their heads. So - as far as the
church speaking on this topic (especially if they'd say what we're saying) -
most Christians simply aren't prepared to add this particular and additional
stigma to their “list” of already being perceived by society at large as
right-wing, homophobic, Bush and Palin supporting, anti-choice, intolerant,
closed-minded, Bible-thumping idiots. And can you blame them? I wouldn't
wish what I've personally been through in this field on anyone, ha ha!
Thirdly, if you and I and many others in this field are right about what
we teach, then the alien deception is quite squarely a spiritual warfare
issue. Unfortunately, the modern church is woefully anemic when it comes to
teaching on the reality of fallen angels and demons, and of teaching about
spiritual warfare and "deliverance ministry" in general - and our assigned
duties to perform them. The average American Christian is more concerned
about hearing how to be blessed in this life than they are about doing this
portion of the ministry of Jesus Christ, and pulpit pastors of huge churches
more often respond to this desire to hear positive self-esteem messages than
things which might require some sacrifice from their members in order to
keep the seats filled (the biblical passage about "itching ears" applies as
much in the church as without, I'm afraid).
For instance, when was the last time anybody heard a really solid or
empowering teaching on fasting? (Sometimes a necessity for dealing with the
demonic.) It's more likely that you'll hear ten sermons on how you can be
blessed by tithing, before you'll hear one on fasting, or on spiritual
warfare. What you and I and others teach about aliens is unpopular not
because the topic of UFOs and aliens is unpopular, but because the topic and
duties of spiritual warfare are not popular in most pulpits, and these
mantles/crosses are simply not taken up by most Christians. Put simply, the
topic of aliens deals with the demonic, and modern American Christians don't
want to hear about demons. The churches and pastors out there are simply
responding to what people want to hear, more often than not, I'm afraid. I
think more pastors would in fact teach on these topics, if they weren't
concerned that so many people would leave their church to attend one on the
next block that did teach what they wanted to hear. I'm saying that the
problem is less the pastors and churches, and more the comfort-seeking
consumer mentality that is the American church-goer.
Fourthly - and I know I'm going to step on some toes here - but frankly
Lynn, I think that you and I and others in this field have actually
inadvertently become part of the problem in fact. When I began in this
field, my 1997 book posited that UFOs and aliens would be a likely
explanation for the Rapture of the Church. Well guess what I've since found?
Two-thirds of Christianity doesn't believe in the Rapture! Additionally, I
and you and many others began making the possible connections between modern
abduction accounts and the correct (non-Sethite, angelic) view of Genesis 6.
Well guess what? 95% of Christianity doesn't believe the correct view of
Genesis 6! Then we added even more controversial topics like "End-Times" and
the Book of Enoch into the mix. What I'm seeing now is that we have failed
to make the core of our position(s) –i.e., the fallen angel hypothesis -
easily acceptable to the majority of Christians, by making our positions
rest upon other doctrines the majority of the church doesn't readily accept.
I'm not saying our ideas are wrong or that what we're teaching doesn't need
to be taught, so much as our approach is still somewhat wanting. I'm going
to finish this line of reasoning in my closing thoughts below, as I know
this is a hard realization for some of us to swallow, and it needs to be
delivered more softly, in pieces.
But lastly for now, a huge part of the problem is that much of what
passes for "Christian ufology," quite simply, isn't either. The Internet has
been a blessing in that information can be shared quickly and easily with
large numbers of people, but it's also problematic in that we can now
publish ANYTHING without an editor or some sort of review process. Decades
ago, for something to see publication, it had to be edited by people more
qualified than yourself, and (in Christian publishing) it definitely had to
meet certain standards of theological soundness. I know that you, as a truly
"published" author, are familiar with this process.
However, part of the reason I think that churches don't address this
issue is that much of what will be found on the Internet by a pastor or
teacher who MIGHT be willing to learn or teach more about this subject
matter, quite simply, isn't Biblically sound, and it takes too much time to
sort through the chaff. You know as well as I do – there’s some crazy stuff
out there! Without naming names here (at least six examples come to mind
though), there's much "Christian ufology" online that doesn't follow
standard procedures of correct biblical interpretation. That, or the author
(even if they're mostly correct on their UFO/Alien views) has other stuff
online that somehow discredits them to the average pastor and shows them
that they are not sound or trustworthy Christian individuals. This
ultimately serves to diminish the topic itself. I'm "the chief sinner" and
have honestly been quite guilty of this myself, and in recent years have
moved to either correct or remove views that I've expressed on other topics
which are "non-essential" to fulfilling my “prime directive” calling to the
UFO ministry field.
But there's still lots of sites out there that just make it plain
difficult for genuine pastors to coherently accept or teach the fallen angel
view of aliens due to the more questionable teachings or methods they see by
the same person. Pastors generally want to teach sound material to their
flock, but because many authors today publish unsound "private
interpretation" material (on either the UFO topic or other various topics),
it’s genuinely difficult for a pastor of a large church to arrive at a
conclusion on this topic he can feel good about endorsing, because often,
the sources are a little too suspect.
L.A.: Are cattle
mutilations, crop circles, alien abductions & implants all part of the same
phenomena?
G.M.: In each of these categories, it is hard to make accurate broad
generalizations, as not all instances have a supernatural cause. For
instance, some crop circles are known to be man-made, and also Vallee had
postulated some were caused by satellite lasers. Some are said to be made by
“orbs” or have supernatural aspects to them – and could possibly be
attributed to fallen angels. Some cattle mutilations are said to also be
man-made by Satanists and other occult groups performing sacrifices, but (imho)
there is sufficient reason to think government agents may have been doing
this to curtail and cover-up mad-cow disease in the United States, which
they knew about decades ago (while other reports indicate a supernatural explanation). I
think Linda-Moulton Howe was actually duped by a CIA contact (or two) into
introducing the idea to the conspiracy-minded UFO community that they are
all connected, specifically for the purpose of allowing the government to
perform covert experiments, all the while diverting blame to aliens!
As for implants being tied to genuine “abduction” experiences caused by
fallen angels… to the best of my knowledge all foreign objects found that
have been tested have been of an unremarkable composition, of normal earth
metal or ceramic. There’s much reason to think that rather than the entities
implanting these foreign objects, that the objects may have become embedded
through natural circumstances, such as a car wreck, or childhood injury –
but unknown to the person – this sort of thing happens frequently in fact.
Mike Heiser has one actually! But he also says he’s had no paranormal
experiences that can connect to it.
A fallen angel may “play on” in an abduction experience, something that
is already there, that the person was not formally aware of. While it’s a
possibility that fallen angels are implanting foreign objects, it is not the
only option that should be considered. And here’s a good reason why: There
is also the issue that many implants are not removed, or even x-rayed, but
are simply felt under the skin – and may just be natural harmless growths
that are common for humans (like cysts, benign tumors, polyps, bone growths,
etc). There are many abductees that are likely mistaking these things for
implants – without a real medical exam and evidence. But rather than
assuming it is an implant or a foreign object, they should consider it is a
natural growth, and think about getting a medical exam. While
most of these sorts of things are
benign, and appear in abductees and non-abductees alike, and pose no real
health concern, there also is a chance they could be an indicator of a
non-benign medical condition, and should be checked out by a medical doctor
to find out what it is for sure.
In general, supernaturally caused crop circles, implants, and cattle
mutilations, along with alien abduction, caused by fallen angelic entities,
are serving the same Strong Delusion and deception of real extraterrestrials
visiting earth – and arguably a belief in the man-made (or natural) sides of
these phenomena being mistakenly attributed to supernatural causes is
serving this Strong Delusion as well. And in the phenomena of bringing about
the “End Times Strong Delusion” spoken up in 1 Thessalonians 2:11, yes, they
are all parts of the same phenomena, but I think much of it is more mundane
in origin than some people
who ascribe supernatural or alien activity to the events would like to
believe.
L.A.: There seems to be
a breeding program that is ongoing, what are your thoughts about that?
G.M.: Your wording of the question is indeed my answer... I think that
yes, there SEEMS to be a breeding program currently ongoing... there's much
anecdotal evidence to support belief in this idea... BUT I don't think that
there actually is a breeding program in fact underway - at least not to
date.
I am of course aware of Dr David Jacob's work in this field of inquiry
and speculation, and feel that he and many others are accurately reporting
what abductees (especially female ones) BELIEVE is happening to them.
However, I've come to believe that what people believe is happening (like I
said earlier) is a visionary experience initiated by fallen angels, and is
simply another very large component of "the alien agenda." The agenda is not
so much hybridization in my view, but rather *creating a belief system* that
hybridization is currently ongoing. But I don't believe that hybridization
is actually occurring right now.
For starters, I have yet to see any evidence or solid proof that this is
occurring – all of the anecdotal evidence and reports I am aware of can be
explained equally as well in ways that do not require hybridization to be
taking place today. Additionally, I've seen that modern science supports
what Genesis Ch 1, Ch 6, Ch 7, Leviticus Ch 11, and Deut Ch 14 teach
repeatedly - that kind only produces after its own kind. Hybridization
amongst different species is unsuccessful or downright impossible, and on
the rare occasions that two similar enough species can be crossed, the
resulting offspring is sterile, or seedless (mules and yummy tangelos come
to mind, for instance).
If one argues that true physical aliens are hybridizing with humans, even
in the remote unlikelihood that it were successful, the line would stop with
the hybrid, as physical reality and all of recorded history shows that
hybrids are sterile. No long-term, multi-generational "best of both worlds"
hybrid (such as suggested by Stephen Spielberg's mini-series "Taken") could
ever result from such a process.
But in Christian ufology circles, we correctly argue that in Genesis 6,
fallen angels procreated with human women. It does seem that (probably
because the angels shed their first estate to become near-fully human in
physical manifestation) that the hybrid Nephilim resulted, and they were not
sterile, as the genetic susceptibility for human gigantism continued and
passed through the time of the flood (probably through one of Noah's sons'
wives...). So, many Christians argue today, as I did for years, that what we
are calling "aliens" are really fallen angels mating with humans again,
pointing to Jesus' "as in the days of Noah" comments from Matthew 24.
So here's the problem...
My views on this possibility have been changing, with a further focus on
something Dr. Heiser has presented- that the term “and also after that” may
be better translated as “whenever”. If this is a more accurate translation,
then Gen 6:4 would read, “there were nephilim
on the earth in those days whenever the
sons of God went into the daughters of man…” This
seems to mean that a giant of Nephilim proportions is what is produced
whenever fallen angels interbreed with humans. If this is what the Word of
God teaches, then it can be seen as a theological absolute that modern
“hybrids” or “Nephilim” would have to be giants of Nephilim proportions. It
seems illogical to argue, merely from abduction reports caused by known
deceptive entities, that fallen angels somehow found a way to "dampen" the
"giants" issue, to more successfully blend in with humanity today, but it is
perhaps unbiblical as well. IF angels are IN FACT mating and reproducing
with humans today, why are there no 30 foot tall giants walking around? If
angels and humans procreating produces Nephilim giants, plain and simple:
where are they today?
I find that I agree with Joe Jordan's, Michael Heiser's, Gary Bates’ and
my wife (Nicole Malone)'s stated opinions that fallen angels are more
correctly creating a "belief system" that hybridization is currently
happening. Joe Jordan posits that all those stories of underground
laboratories where women get to see and hold their alleged "hybrid" children
is simply a "hook" to keep women loyal and obedient to their fallen
angel/alien abductors. Joe has said of women who hold on to this belief
system, that he is unable to help them get finally and fully free from the
abduction experience, and from regular visitations from these fallen angels
claiming to be aliens. But those who abandon the belief that they have a
hybrid son or daughter being tended to by the aliens/angels do indeed find
freedom from the experience. That in itself should tell us much.
I genuinely believe (true physical alien belief systems aside) that
wicked angels are merely capitalizing on your, my, and many others' work in
promoting a correct HISTORICAL understanding of Genesis 6 to make it
seem like they have more power than they do today, and to keep people
(especially females) bound to their unholy influence. Remember also – that
God punished the original “invasion cadre” of Genesis 6 angels by placing
them in tartarus until the end of the age… is this crime still punishable by
the same sentence? Food for thought… Fallen angels may be wanting humans to
believe they are hybridizing us today, but there’s a chance that they’re
actually afraid to do so because they now know what the punishment will be!
It may even be that in the near future, a repeat of the "days of Noah" where
human women are producing the hybrid progeny of fallen angels (nephilim) is
still to come. However, as I said in my 2005 Ancient of Days lecture, I do
not believe that we are quite there yet.
I've also seen that belief in a modern hybridization phenomenon can bear
some VERY bad fruit! There are actually Christians today teaching that these
ALLEGED human-looking hybrids can't be saved. The Gospel of Jesus Christ can
become diluted among those who believe in the hybridization "reality" AND to
those whom they should be preaching it to...
I've actually heard from one new Christian, that those very people who
led him to Christ later turned and shunned him and would not fellowship with
him, based on their new-found belief that he was a hybrid, and therefore
wasn't really saved. They based this belief on some things they perceived to
be odd about him (he had an Autism Spectrum condition), and more than
anything – their own paranoia and fear of human-looking hybrid infiltration.
I've also actually met and ministered to a young woman who believed she was
a hybrid, and a Nephilim. She didn't even believe she could be saved in
Christ, even though she wanted to be. It took some seriously inspired
scriptural revelation delivered to her via Pastor Chris Ward and later
myself to convince her that she and her family really could be saved by
Jesus Christ. She had been told by a pastor of a church that if she was a
Nephilim (as she strongly believed), that she could not possibly be saved,
and would be condemned by her very blood.
How many more are out there I'm forced to wonder? I'm personally finding
repeatedly that one bad fruit of a belief in modern hybridization is that
the simple, pure gospel's power is being robbed. This to me, is a successful
dimension of the “alien agenda” in that you have real people believing today
that the gospel can’t apply to them, and you have Christians believing that
the gospel can’t save everyone they meet and therefore shouldn’t be preached
or offered to “all creation / every creature.” Sorry to put it this way, but
score one for the alien agenda. This belief system needs some serious
examination and possibly revision by those of us most prominent in this
field.
L.A.: You have hosted
the Ancient of Days conference in Roswell New Mexico for a number of years,
how has this impacted the community?
G.M.: Thanks for mentioning this - much good fruit has come of them,
including the opportunity to finally meet you in person! I really enjoyed
your first book, and we currently carry “Politics, Prophecy & The
Supernatural” at our local coffeehouse. Thanks for leaving some behind.
As you know, there are about a dozen UFO conferences in the U.S. alone
(in addition to the Roswell UFO Festival), but most of these promote secular
ufology alone - running the gamut of teaching about scientific investigation
and government documents, all the way to the new age claims that aliens are
our creators, spirit guides, saviors, etc. These venues sometimes (sadly)
give a pulpit to some very popular New Age “apostles, prophets, and
teachers” who attach their false doctrines to people’s interest in ufology.
Most of these venues claim to ask people to be open-minded, but they never
really allow for sound Biblical views to be taught, especially if Christians
are going to rain on their belief parade that aliens are good guys here to
save the planet. (Of course they'll have teachers that say UFOs are in The
Bible or that Jesus Christ is really an alien hybrid, but that's about it.)
However, in 2002, Mike Heiser and I discussed the possibility of creating
just such a Christian venue, and in 2003 we had a small one-day conference
with six Christian speakers held at The Roswell Convention Center. This
public venue served to introduce some more sound biblical teaching into the
public mix. I thought this would be only of interest to Christians, but
interestingly, Richard Hoagland showed up for our panel discussion, and of
course lots of secular "fans" of his work showed up as well. This factor
carried into 2004's event, and for the first time ever, there was a large
public venue that promoted seven secular speakers and seven Christian
speakers on the same stage over four days. Amazingly, everybody left as
friends, many secular people came to consider the validity of the Biblical /
fallen angel view, and praise God I don’t think ufology has been the same
since! And because they’re on DVD, many more people – Christian and non –
continue to be introduced to this worldview. Even the year I took off (as a
newlywed) from conference organizing, saw Joe Jordan deliver his powerful
message at the CE4 Research Roswell NM UFO Conference, and people are still
talking about it.
Of course there’s been a fair share of mistakes and duds, but as a
learning process we’re definitely on God’s pruning table, so to speak, and
this past Ancient of Days Christian Symposium on Aliens has been said by
many to be the best one yet. It’s flawed in some ways, but I think it has
the best chance to influence the Christian community with some sound
teaching on this topic of anything I’ve organized to date. I’ll add that
part of the reason for it’s effectiveness (relating to what I said earlier)
is that – as a mission statement of sorts – without
making the arguments rest on the touchier, and sometimes divisive topics
(like The Rapture, End-Times, Genesis 6, The Book of Enoch, etc), the group
still effectively communicated that fallen angels are behind the alien
phenomena.
L.A.: Jacques Vallee
calls the UFO phenomena, messengers of deception. Would you agree with him
and why?
G.M.: Yes, largely because of things I’ve already said. Vallee correctly
points out (in his book “Messengers of Deception”) that this phenomena is
responsible for numerous UFO cults and (what we’d call) unbiblical belief
systems. While not a Christian, he does a very nice systematic analysis of
what happens when people are uninformed of (or disobedient to) what Paul
preaches in Galatians 1:8… (me paraphrasing) “Don’t believe angels when they
bring you false gospels!”
In fact Mike suggested that we “go for all the marbles” by inviting
Vallee as our keynote speaker for the 2004 Ancient of Days conference, but
sadly, he declined. I really, really wish we could have hosted him. Believe
it or not he actually responded to me that he no longer speaks at UFO
conferences, because most of ufology today has made up their minds that UFOs
represent aliens from other star systems, and he doesn’t personally believe
that himself.
L.A.: Where is all of
this headed?
G.M.: Trying to be succinct, I believe that all of this activity
(man-made or supernatural) is largely the workings-together of fallen angels
and globalists to bring about a one-world government under anti-christ.
Hollywood, globalists, fallen angels and demons are creating a completely
false but ingeniously crafted world-wide belief system that aliens are
visiting earth – and have been since Biblical times. People are being
conditioned to re-interpret The Bible itself as “the greatest UFO story ever
told” and to accept some the coming aliens as our friends, benefactors,
superiors and saviors here to help us fight off the so-called “bad aliens”
and usher humanity into a New Golden Age of peace and spiritual harmony with
the deified universe – all the while lying about helping us escape the
coming horrors of the tribulation period and sure judgment at the return of
Jesus Christ. The penultimate chapter of this belief system will result in
an engineered “revealing” or “disclosure” that will necessitate a planet
united under one political, monetary, and religious order; this global
government and deceived population, under anti-christ, will actually do
battle against Jesus Christ when he returns.
L.A.: Your closing
thoughts?
G.M.: After that, it is all headed to a glorious city and a lake of fire.
People need to understand all of this now so that when the curtain is
unveiled, they already have made their choice about which God to serve.
Those who already understand much of this now need to coherently, wisely,
and soundly teach this material to the church and to the lost, in a way that
can be easily understood and readily accepted. |
